PIlks Recs have hundreds of juniors on their books
OFFICIALS at Pilks Recs amateur rugby league club have vowed to come out fighting after a planning verdict dealt a heavy blow to their hopes of moving to a new ground.
Recs, who have more than 300 junior and adult players on their books, were responding after St Helens Council's planning committee knocked back proposals to create sports facilities on Victoria Park.
The decision delighted neighbours living opposite the park who feared sports facilities would lead to a loss of open space and create parking congestion on matchdays.
But the verdict was a body blow to the rugby club. John Rees, from Pilks Recs, said: "We're disappointed but we are going to come out fighting. We plan to generate plenty of public interest about our plight."
The Victoria Park scheme would have been the catalyst for Recs, one of the country's leading amateur rugby clubs, to relocate at the council owned Bishop Road playing fields.
Recs current City Road sports ground is up for sale by glass giants Pilkington Ltd, who are seeking planning permission to build housing on the rugby pitches and surrounding land at Windle City.
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The company, however, needs to offer compensatory sports facilities for those that would be lost at City Road, or otherwise face planning consent being blocked by Sport England opposition.
The Victoria Park plan - for two football pitches, a sports pavilion, netball court and improved bowling green - was submitted by the property arm of Pilkington Ltd and would have become a base for football teams currently using Bishop Road.
Andy Burns in action for Recs. The club is one the most famous in the amateur game.
Uncertainty has been hanging over Recs since Pilkington Ltd announced plans to sell off the land in 2004 and the rugby club's social base, the Windle City clubhouse, was shutdown by the company last year.
Recs now use Windleshaw Cricket Club as a post-match base but are anxious for their long-term playing future to be secured.
Privately, the club has expressed amazement that, at time when tackling childhood obesity and anti-social behaviour are government priorities, more is not being done to help them.
The club's committee are due to meet to discuss their next move.
Meanwhile, ALPS - Pilkington's property arm - says it is now considering alternative sites where sports pitches can be relocated, but they have not ruled out an appeal against the planning decision.
Peter Alcock, ALPS' chief executive, said: "It is a little early to know for certain whether we are appealing. But that is one of the options we are considering."
Following The Star's reports about the knock back of two sports developments this week in the face of neighbours' protests, St Helens Council leader Brian Spencer said the decisions were made "under due democratic process listening to the views of people who live around the two parks".
Cllr Spencer, who represents the Liberal Democrat party, said a meeting is planned with ALPs with a view to finding an alternative site for the sports facilities.
THERE has already been a torrent of messages about this controversial rejection... Want to add your own views? Comment below.
Posted by: Alfiesays, St Helens on 1:38pm Fri 25 Jan 08
Quite right that Victoria Park should be left alone. Simple solution - limit the number of houses planned for the site and include the pitches, netball court, bowling green, and sports pavillion on the Pilkington Land. Hands off the park!
Quite right that Victoria Park should be left alone. Simple solution - limit the number of houses planned for the site and include the pitches, netball court, bowling green, and sports pavillion on the Pilkington Land. Hands off the park!
" St Helens Council leader Brian Spencer said the decisions were made "under due democratic process listening to the views of people who live around the two parks"."
there goes the green light for any group of nimbys to stop any development they wish, regardless of the need for the development in terms of community facilities,sporting facilities and jobs.I assumed the council ALSO has a duty to provide facilities for the community, to encourage sports and encourage investment into our town? Is this not the case? Have the council now given up even attempting to bring to St Helens what other areas take for granted? .There were 14 (FOURTEEN) individual letters of objection about Viccy Park, that's hardly the views of everyone living around the park.300 local kids and adults are involved with Pilks recs.Where is the 'democracy' in that? What a joke!!!
let's hear no more bleating from these councillors about anti social behaviour and kids out of control.You reap what you sow!
" St Helens Council leader Brian Spencer said the decisions were made "under due democratic process listening to the views of people who live around the two parks"."
there goes the green light for any group of nimbys to stop any development they wish, regardless of the need for the development in terms of community facilities,sporting facilities and jobs.I assumed the council ALSO has a duty to provide facilities for the community, to encourage sports and encourage investment into our town? Is this not the case? Have the council now given up even attempting to bring to St Helens what other areas take for granted? .There were 14 (FOURTEEN) individual letters of objection about Viccy Park, that's hardly the views of everyone living around the park.300 local kids and adults are involved with Pilks recs.Where is the 'democracy' in that? What a joke!!!
let's hear no more bleating from these councillors about anti social behaviour and kids out of control.You reap what you sow!
"other forms" could simply mean a signature on a pre prepared form.Big deal! Anyone can sign a petition without giving two hoots about the issues involved, as easily as anyone can sign a pre written form. Individuial letters of objection are the only true litmus test of local feeling and there were [bold]only[/bold] 14 letters.Why give the whole of St Helens a say on a statue for saints and not give the whole of st helens a say on sports facilities for the town?if 14 letters is enough to stop a major sports development we may as well close up shop in st helens and tell investors to go elsewhere with their money and plans.I'm sure they are already taking note.
"other forms" could simply mean a signature on a pre prepared form.Big deal! Anyone can sign a petition without giving two hoots about the issues involved, as easily as anyone can sign a pre written form. Individuial letters of objection are the only true litmus test of local feeling and there were only 14 letters.Why give the whole of St Helens a say on a statue for saints and not give the whole of st helens a say on sports facilities for the town?if 14 letters is enough to stop a major sports development we may as well close up shop in st helens and tell investors to go elsewhere with their money and plans.I'm sure they are already taking note.
[quote][bold]BDoug[/bold] wrote:
\"other forms\" could simply mean a signature on a pre prepared form.Big deal! Anyone can sign a petition without giving two hoots about the issues involved, as easily as anyone can sign a pre written form. Individuial letters of objection are the only true litmus test of local feeling and there were [bold]only[/bold] 14 letters.Why give the whole of St Helens a say on a statue for saints and not give the whole of st helens a say on sports facilities for the town?if 14 letters is enough to stop a major sports development we may as well close up shop in st helens and tell investors to go elsewhere with their money and plans.I\'m sure they are already taking note.[/quote] So people who cannot construct a letter are not entitled to have a say.The pre-prepared forms were organised by local community groups so everyone could have a say.
BDoug wrote:
\"other forms\" could simply mean a signature on a pre prepared form.Big deal! Anyone can sign a petition without giving two hoots about the issues involved, as easily as anyone can sign a pre written form. Individuial letters of objection are the only true litmus test of local feeling and there were only 14 letters.Why give the whole of St Helens a say on a statue for saints and not give the whole of st helens a say on sports facilities for the town?if 14 letters is enough to stop a major sports development we may as well close up shop in st helens and tell investors to go elsewhere with their money and plans.I\'m sure they are already taking note.
So people who cannot construct a letter are not entitled to have a say.The pre-prepared forms were organised by local community groups so everyone could have a say.
Posted by: D. Prescott, St. Helens on 8:19pm Fri 25 Jan 08
I don't know what people expect. Pilks Recs and other clubs give youngsters something to do instead of hanging around the streets The people objecting would be the first to moan about gangs in Victoria Park or hanging around the streets. Parks are meant to be used for recreation at the moment there is a lovely big park not being used to its full potential so come on give these people who run clubs for our youngsters aome encouragment instead of knock backs all the time and you St. Helens Council get your act together I thought you was trying to help our youngesters and help them get fit as well.
I don't know what people expect. Pilks Recs and other clubs give youngsters something to do instead of hanging around the streets The people objecting would be the first to moan about gangs in Victoria Park or hanging around the streets. Parks are meant to be used for recreation at the moment there is a lovely big park not being used to its full potential so come on give these people who run clubs for our youngsters aome encouragment instead of knock backs all the time and you St. Helens Council get your act together I thought you was trying to help our youngesters and help them get fit as well.
[quote][bold]D. Prescott[/bold] wrote:
I don't know what people expect. Pilks Recs and other clubs give youngsters something to do instead of hanging around the streets The people objecting would be the first to moan about gangs in Victoria Park or hanging around the streets. Parks are meant to be used for recreation at the moment there is a lovely big park not being used to its full potential so come on give these people who run clubs for our youngsters aome encouragment instead of knock backs all the time and you St. Helens Council get your act together I thought you was trying to help our youngesters and help them get fit as well.[/quote] Already happens with or without pilks recs,and always will without security.
D. Prescott wrote:
I don't know what people expect. Pilks Recs and other clubs give youngsters something to do instead of hanging around the streets The people objecting would be the first to moan about gangs in Victoria Park or hanging around the streets. Parks are meant to be used for recreation at the moment there is a lovely big park not being used to its full potential so come on give these people who run clubs for our youngsters aome encouragment instead of knock backs all the time and you St. Helens Council get your act together I thought you was trying to help our youngesters and help them get fit as well.
Already happens with or without pilks recs,and always will without security.
kids with too much time on their hands get up to mischief, always have, always will.Sports gives some kids an outlet, always has,always will.A lack of good sports facilities,programme
s and investment in the community will lead to more kids with nothing to do and lots of energy, always has and always will. Obesity is a growing problem and a timebomb for the NHS and future tax payers in years to come, it seems our council's answer to this is to relegate sports activities and investment in sports below the 'needs" (and I use the term as loosely as possible) of nimbys.When you buy a house you don't buy everything within a 500 yard radius too.
It seems the nimbys want the sports developments to go in the park down the road, in the full knowledge that a group of nimbys will say NO no matter where the sports facilities are to be sited.The ball is most certainly in the council's court to help out this famous rugby club and to give our town's youngsters-and adults- the sports facilities they need.They've got one huge black mark against their name already!
kids with too much time on their hands get up to mischief, always have, always will.Sports gives some kids an outlet, always has,always will.A lack of good sports facilities,programme
s and investment in the community will lead to more kids with nothing to do and lots of energy, always has and always will. Obesity is a growing problem and a timebomb for the NHS and future tax payers in years to come, it seems our council's answer to this is to relegate sports activities and investment in sports below the 'needs" (and I use the term as loosely as possible) of nimbys.When you buy a house you don't buy everything within a 500 yard radius too.
It seems the nimbys want the sports developments to go in the park down the road, in the full knowledge that a group of nimbys will say NO no matter where the sports facilities are to be sited.The ball is most certainly in the council's court to help out this famous rugby club and to give our town's youngsters-and adults- the sports facilities they need.They've got one huge black mark against their name already!
Posted by: robert rothwell, merseyside on 6:09pm Sat 26 Jan 08
Who kicked you out of your City Rd Grounds, Club & facilaties, Uncertainty has been hanging over Recs since Pilkington Ltd announced plans to sell off the land in 2004 and the rugby club's social base, the Windle City clubhouse, was shutdown by the company last year. LEAVE OUR PARK ALONE ! Try Ruskin Park before they sell that for redevelopment !!!
Who kicked you out of your City Rd Grounds, Club & facilaties, Uncertainty has been hanging over Recs since Pilkington Ltd announced plans to sell off the land in 2004 and the rugby club's social base, the Windle City clubhouse, was shutdown by the company last year. LEAVE OUR PARK ALONE ! Try Ruskin Park before they sell that for redevelopment !!!
[quote][bold]robert rothwell[/bold] wrote:
Who kicked you out of your City Rd Grounds, Club & facilaties, Uncertainty has been hanging over Recs since Pilkington Ltd announced plans to sell off the land in 2004 and the rugby club's social base, the Windle City clubhouse, was shutdown by the company last year. LEAVE OUR PARK ALONE ! Try Ruskin Park before they sell that for redevelopment !!! [/quote] As discussed on a previous story. Ruskin Leisure do not want Pilks Recs. They are happy for the two senior teams but do not want any juniors using the facilities.
There is also a fundamental flaw in that Ruskin Leisure dooes not have enough space to accomodate the replacement facilities required under Sport England recommendations, and this was the deciding factor in looking for alternatives, not just for Pilks Recs, but also the bowling club that has also occupied City Road for years
robert rothwell wrote:
Who kicked you out of your City Rd Grounds, Club & facilaties, Uncertainty has been hanging over Recs since Pilkington Ltd announced plans to sell off the land in 2004 and the rugby club's social base, the Windle City clubhouse, was shutdown by the company last year. LEAVE OUR PARK ALONE ! Try Ruskin Park before they sell that for redevelopment !!!
As discussed on a previous story. Ruskin Leisure do not want Pilks Recs. They are happy for the two senior teams but do not want any juniors using the facilities.
There is also a fundamental flaw in that Ruskin Leisure dooes not have enough space to accomodate the replacement facilities required under Sport England recommendations, and this was the deciding factor in looking for alternatives, not just for Pilks Recs, but also the bowling club that has also occupied City Road for years
Is the park not also OUR park??? or is it for the exclusive use of the small minded that believe thay have some sort of ownership over it.
I did see a team training on the park today,not sure who, but I hope they didn't interfere with the residents walks. Although they were they only people in the 'overused' park
Is the park not also OUR park??? or is it for the exclusive use of the small minded that believe thay have some sort of ownership over it.
I did see a team training on the park today,not sure who, but I hope they didn't interfere with the residents walks. Although they were they only people in the 'overused' park
The bowling club have made it clear they do not want to relocate to viccy park.As for the training on saturday,and the kids who sometimes play a match on Sunday.Most locals seem ok with .It is the large organised games ,and all that would come with them, that seems to upset.
The bowling club have made it clear they do not want to relocate to viccy park.As for the training on saturday,and the kids who sometimes play a match on Sunday.Most locals seem ok with .It is the large organised games ,and all that would come with them, that seems to upset.
Posted by: mr harmon, Haydock on 10:13am Sun 27 Jan 08
Why do Pilks Recs have to play at the Victoria park area ? Pilkingtons should find you a Place anywhere in St Helens and i know some of Pilks Recs kids have used the pitches in Parr so why not relocate there ? SIMPLE or is it just because it's Parr ?
Why do Pilks Recs have to play at the Victoria park area ? Pilkingtons should find you a Place anywhere in St Helens and i know some of Pilks Recs kids have used the pitches in Parr so why not relocate there ? SIMPLE or is it just because it's Parr ?
Posted by: Recs csupporter, Laffak on 1:52pm Sun 27 Jan 08
Pilks Recs want to stay in the heart of the community where they have been for deacdes. As the story above points out, the idea behind these plans was that the club would relocate at Bishop Road playing fields. The Victoria Park pitches would compensate for those lost at City Road, which is necessary if the housing plans are to go through.
On the subject of Victoria Park, I went by it this morning and it is hardly the 'green oasis' some people are trying to make out. There is a skatepark and another play area along with buildings used by Age Concern. And that's the purpose of parks, they are for recreation - not simply a pretty picture or a place for dogs to leave their muck.
Pilks Recs want to stay in the heart of the community where they have been for deacdes. As the story above points out, the idea behind these plans was that the club would relocate at Bishop Road playing fields. The Victoria Park pitches would compensate for those lost at City Road, which is necessary if the housing plans are to go through.
On the subject of Victoria Park, I went by it this morning and it is hardly the 'green oasis' some people are trying to make out. There is a skatepark and another play area along with buildings used by Age Concern. And that's the purpose of parks, they are for recreation - not simply a pretty picture or a place for dogs to leave their muck.
[quote][bold]CP[/bold] wrote:
The bowling club have made it clear they do not want to relocate to viccy park.As for the training on saturday,and the kids who sometimes play a match on Sunday.Most locals seem ok with .It is the large organised games ,and all that would come with them, that seems to upset. [/quote] Large organised games?
One of our teams plays on there every other Sunday, this is certainly not ad-hoc and is very organised. I am failing to see the difference between 10 year olds using it and adults using it. The purpose will still be the same irrelevant of age.
I wish somebody would point out what exactly does come with "large organised games" because as far as I know it brings community spirt and pride in their local sporting team.
As for Parr Stocks Road. This has only been for the past 18 months due to pitches we hired at LSH being unavailable due to their own expansion project. Whilst the Parr facilities are very good, it is not in the community that we have been in since 1908. At present we have only 1 team there which we are hoping can re-locate back to Windle next season
CP wrote:
The bowling club have made it clear they do not want to relocate to viccy park.As for the training on saturday,and the kids who sometimes play a match on Sunday.Most locals seem ok with .It is the large organised games ,and all that would come with them, that seems to upset.
Large organised games?
One of our teams plays on there every other Sunday, this is certainly not ad-hoc and is very organised. I am failing to see the difference between 10 year olds using it and adults using it. The purpose will still be the same irrelevant of age.
I wish somebody would point out what exactly does come with "large organised games" because as far as I know it brings community spirt and pride in their local sporting team.
As for Parr Stocks Road. This has only been for the past 18 months due to pitches we hired at LSH being unavailable due to their own expansion project. Whilst the Parr facilities are very good, it is not in the community that we have been in since 1908. At present we have only 1 team there which we are hoping can re-locate back to Windle next season
So if the council receive 13 letters of objection to house building on city road, will they block those plans too? Who is running this weak council? Seems like the tail is wagging the dog at the minute.
So if the council receive 13 letters of objection to house building on city road, will they block those plans too? Who is running this weak council? Seems like the tail is wagging the dog at the minute.
The 'responsible' residents objecting to the Viccy park development should hang their heads in shame. Yesterday I saw three responsible residents walking their dogs in Viccy Park and allowing them to foul on the fields - shameful. yet you see fit to deny development for the whole area, basically you cannot see beyond the end of your noses and the Planning Committee are just a joke - some interest in Government issues like Youth Obesity and anti social behaviour they have. Well you should all stay silent when you are being plagued by anti social behaviour in the area because kids have nothing to do. Pilks Recs and the other amateur clubs in town are doing a great job at providing an outlet for youngsters and whats more - take a look on the Saints web page and see how many of their younger squads came from teams in the town. This decision is nothing short of a scandal!!
The 'responsible' residents objecting to the Viccy park development should hang their heads in shame. Yesterday I saw three responsible residents walking their dogs in Viccy Park and allowing them to foul on the fields - shameful. yet you see fit to deny development for the whole area, basically you cannot see beyond the end of your noses and the Planning Committee are just a joke - some interest in Government issues like Youth Obesity and anti social behaviour they have. Well you should all stay silent when you are being plagued by anti social behaviour in the area because kids have nothing to do. Pilks Recs and the other amateur clubs in town are doing a great job at providing an outlet for youngsters and whats more - take a look on the Saints web page and see how many of their younger squads came from teams in the town. This decision is nothing short of a scandal!!
There were a number of reasons that it was decided against going to Moss Lane as follows
-Potential for accidents with young children crossing the busy A580 to get there.- Police also concerned with potential for accidents
-LSH wanted to retain the full control of the whole site and dictate what fixtures were played etc. Pilks commitee felt that this was not a good base for a partnership
-It turns out that that land is not now available for development anyway
-LSH were embarking on developing their junior sides and the whole site would be too congested
-It seemed that the compensatory provisions were being ploughed more into LSH than into developing a top facility for the whole community.
hope these answer your question
There were a number of reasons that it was decided against going to Moss Lane as follows
-Potential for accidents with young children crossing the busy A580 to get there.- Police also concerned with potential for accidents
-LSH wanted to retain the full control of the whole site and dictate what fixtures were played etc. Pilks commitee felt that this was not a good base for a partnership
-It turns out that that land is not now available for development anyway
-LSH were embarking on developing their junior sides and the whole site would be too congested
-It seemed that the compensatory provisions were being ploughed more into LSH than into developing a top facility for the whole community.
hope these answer your question
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